My responses to your questions below, and a note to keep in mind that there are two Standards that MSC owns – the Fisheries Standard, and the Chain of Custody Standard. The former applies to fishing operations, and the latter applies to everything once the fish is landed.

1. does the certification system consider labor issues at all or is it entirely sustainability focused? My understanding is that it's the latter. Correct, the MSC Fisheries Standard is an environmental standard focused on sustainable fishing. However, Since 2014, any fishing vessels prosecuted for forced labor violations in…

You mentioned that Chinese processors have to do an "independent third-party labor audit, or submit a self- assessment report to MSC and allow MSC to commission its own independent audit."

Can you tell us:

1. How many independent labor audits of Chinese processing plants have been submitted to MSC in the past 3 years?
2. Which plants and companies have conducted those audits during the same period?
3. How often in the past 3 years has MSC commissioned its own labor audits of these plants and which plants did MSC target for such audits?
4. Did any of the plants receive a failing or low score i…

Thanks for your questions and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. We had quite a few people offline for the easter holiday and/or spring break. Much of the information you’re looking for is confidential and we’re unable to share details. I’m sharing a few specific responses/points of clarification to your questions below:

1. How many independent labor audits of Chinese processing plants have been submitted to MSC in the past 3 years? Certificate holders are required to provide evidence to their auditor, or Conformity Assessment Body (CAB), not to the MSC as it is a third-party sys…

I’m contacting you in light of our latest investigation, which concerns the use of forced labor in China’s food processing industry, and a link we’ve discovered with Marine Stewardship Council (MSC) Chain of Custody certifications.

Our investigation has identified 11 MSC certified seafood processing facilities in China using forced labor from the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR). The details are as follows:

Rongcheng Haibo Seafood Co. Ltd. (MSC-C-59738) was certified 28 September 2022. The MSC certification was issued after the factory is known to have accepted Uyghurs through a Chin…

We're still looking to better understand MSC's management of social audits at CoC-certified sites. With that in mind, it would be helpful if you could offer insights into the following contextual questions:

• Does MSC expect the self-assessment to identify migrant workers, including those from Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region and North Korea, given the specific question about this on the form?
• Does MSC commission an audit at every site which opts for self-assessment or do you apply some kind of selection criteria meaning that some CoC-certified sites may not undergo social audit?
• Does MSC…

Thank you for getting in touch last week.

I would like to stress that the MSC is taking this matter extremely seriously. Since receiving your email on Friday, I have been discussing it with colleagues.

I’m sure you understand there is a lot for us to look into here - audits for labor eligibility are carried out by third parties and we need to liaise with external organizations to ensure we have all the information to inform how we address the concerns you have raised.

I wonder if it might be possible to have an opportunity to talk to you, alongside our Chief Communications Officer, Ishbel M…

Unfortunately, we cannot go off record for such interactions. We're happy to supply you with our questions in writing again, I've included them below this email alongside background questions we'd separately passed to your colleague in CC, Jackie, and a couple new questions. We suggest that we stick to email and have you provide us with your replies by close of business 5 July, 2023. Does that sound reasonable?

We will answer what we can in terms of questions from your side, but please understand that we're not in a position to offer details about our findings and methods, due to the sensiti…

We do appreciate the more detailed questions and additional time to pull answers together. However, the point of the off-the-record briefing would be to understand more about your report as well as to enable us to explain some important sensitivities on our side, as the part of the context to our response. We feel that it would be beneficial and perhaps more informative for your investigation to be able to approach it this way.

In terms of what we would like to understand from you: What is the focus of your investigation – is it on MSC or the seafood sector more widely? What do you hope it wi…

Thanks for your reply. We greatly appreciate your offer to talk, but on principle we think it’s best to stay on record and, ideally, in writing. We think it's really important that the MSC has a chance to offer its perspective and explain its approach to managing labor risks at CoC-certified sites, and we're trying to facilitate that, but it's important for our purposes that the exchange remain on record.

To answer your questions, the focus of our investigation is the global seafood supply chain through the lens of China. We hope to achieve rigorous explanatory and investigative journalism. W…

Please find the MSC’s responses to your questions below, together with some further background to provide context to our answers. As you’ll read, we are taking the concerns you raised very seriously and once we have sight of the evidence you have will carefully consider the best action to deal with any issues. Thank you again for the additional time to allow us to get the answers for you.

Background

The Marine Stewardship Council is an environmental not-for profit organisation, whose goal is ending overfishing. This is a challenging task which involves MSC working with many fishers and suppl…

Thank you for sharing these details, we really appreciate the transparency and engagement from MSC on this matter. I'm including some follow-up queries below, and we'd be grateful if MSC could provide input to these by close of business Tuesday July 11, 2023.

1. Please could MSC specify which CoC-certified processing plants underwent audit (7 sites) and which plants carried out self-assessments (4 sites). For SMETA audited sites, please detail which auditing firms undertook the most recent audits and provide date of audit. For self-assessed sites, please provide the date of completion. Pleas…

To provide context to these, in developing our programme for certified sustainable seafood, the MSC includes high levels of transparency, particularly in the assessment of fisheries, publishing all assessments, certification reports and audits on fisheries.msc.org. We recognise the importance of stakeholder consultation and allowing the open scrutiny of assessments. Our labour eligibility requirements for fisheries at sea require them to complete self-declarations on forced labour, which are also publicly available. However, for supply chain operations, certified to our Chain of Custody (COC)…

Thank you for your latest email. Just to underscore that we will be publishing all of MSC's responses, and so would urge a reconsideration of the confidentiality. Given the gravity of what we've uncovered, there will ultimately be calls for greater transparency from industry and others, and so it may be worth considering whether or not MSC should take the initiative in that regard.

We've one more question. In a context where seafood processors, buyers, social compliance firms, auditable standards holders and certification bodies collectively evade basic transparency about the effectiveness of…

The conformity assessment bodies (CABs) responsible for certifying companies to our standards can suspend certificates if there is evidence that the company no longer complies with the MSC's requirements or when directed to do so by the MSC as a result of unacceptable conduct. Following an investigation and the opportunity for those involved to respond, the course of action taken by CABs and the MSC would be determined on a case by case basis depending on the strength of evidence and the gravity of the issues involved.

Rather than requesting anonymity, my point was that the responses in these…

As an environmental organization and voluntary certification program for sustainable fisheries, the MSC does not see itself in a position to contribute to the discussion on import restrictions or other regulatory or economic policy measures. The email outlined the two certification programs run by the MSC - one on sustainability (for fisheries) and one on traceability (for companies in the supply chain).

The email in its original language said: "Vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage – und Ihre wichtige Arbeit zu diesem Thema! Was ihre Frage nach einem Interview betrifft, muss ich jedoch passen. Ich ho…

Can you answer specific questions about the issues raised in The Outlaw Ocean Project's investigation regarding traceability certs for factories where forced labor was identified, and comingling undermining traceability of catch back to vessel:

1. Does MSC today certify any fish with a traceability certificate that comes to you via the companies identified in the “Outlaw Ocean Project”?
2. Regardless of the answer to point 1, how does MSC ensure on the Chinese side that the fish labelled accordingly is not actually mixed with fish of problematic origin? Is that even possible?

The email in it…

The MSC’s traceability standard requires companies certified to the MSC traceability standard to accurately record and document every entry and exit of MSC fish. The email added that annual inspections by independent auditors examine the company’s processes for the separation and identification of goods, including storage, processing, and comparing the weight of MSC fish purchased by the company against weight of sale. It also said that the certification standard establishes a fully documented supply chain for each MSC-labeled product.

The email in its original language said: "Unternehmen, di…

The Outlaw Ocean Project’s investigation found that specific companies had received MSC certification, but were linked to problematic fishing practices and with forced labor in China. Specifically concerning the German market, Die Zeit asked the MSC whether and how it ensures that MSC-certified catch does not have problematic origins.

The email in its original language said: "Vielen Dank für Ihre Mail. Wir greifen dieses Thema jetzt in unserer kommenden Ausgabe (Redaktionsschluss Montagmittag um 12:00) auf.

Im Zuge der Recherchen durch das Outlaw Ocean Project war es ja um sehr konkrete Un…

The MSC is primarily an environmental organization that promotes sustainable, environmentally compatible fishing of the seas, and none of the fisheries observed by The Outlaw Ocean Project, or addressed in Die Zeit’s report, are MSC certified. The certification of processing plants according to the MSC traceability standard means that a fish product bearing the MSC seal is very likely to actually contain fish from a sustainable, MSC-certified fishery. This also applies to all MSC-labeled fish products available in Germany. With the MSC’s recent introduction of an additional requirement for pro…

The Marine Stewardship Council (MSC) operates two certification programs: one is focused on sustainable fisheries and fishing practices, and the other concerns the chain of custody after catch has been landed. Seafood plants are certified under the MSC’s Chain of Custody Standard. The MSC itself says of this: “The Standard ensures an unbroken chain where certified seafood is identifiable, segregated and can be traced back to another certified business. This system allows businesses and consumers to be confident that seafood with the blue MSC label has come from a fishery certified as sustainab…

Our ongoing investigation into the use of forced labor in China’s seafood processing industry has uncovered evidence of North Koreans working in more seafood plants in Liaoning province. Some of these plants are currently MSC certified: Dandong Yuanyi Refined Seafoods, Dandong Taifeng Foodstuff, Donggang Jinhui Foodstuff and Donggang Haimeng Foodstuff. We understand from our previous engagements with the MSC that social audits or a self-assessment of labor practices are a precursor for MSC chain-of-custody certifications for plants. Do you have insights on why North Korean workers inside the p…

Thank you for your email and details of your continuing investigation. We understand that the focus of your continued investigation is on social audits. In our previous email correspondence with you, we explained the role of independent third-party social audits in determining whether a seafood processor is eligible for inclusion in MSC’s Chain of Custody program. I would be grateful if you could refer to this correspondence, in relation to your current queries. You ask about at-sea conditions. As we said in previous correspondence, the MSC is an environmental not-for-profit. Our goal is to en…

"Thanks for your email. We know the MSC is an environmental organization, but it also mandates prerequisite social audits as part of the MSC’s certification process for processing plants. Clearly those audits have not been successful at identifying Xinjiang or North Korean workers. Does that present a problem for the MSC? Does the MSC have any concerns that the social audits are not identifying Xinjiang or North Korean labor in Chinese seafood processing plants that are certified by the MSC? Has the MSC raised questions with relevant auditing bodies about the fitness for purpose of the audit p…

I'm writing from the fact checking department at The New Yorker, where I'm working with the writer Ian Urbina on an upcoming piece about North Korean labor in China. The piece discusses the use of social audits, mentioning the Marine Stewardship Council, and I wanted to run a few things by you. Could you please let me know by EOD Tuesday, Feb. 20, if there are any inaccuracies, and if you would like to comment on anything? Thanks very much.

1. Marine Stewardship Council grants certification to companies if they have passed social audits or other types of assessments.
2. You told Ian's team t…

Thanks for getting in touch. As Jackie isn’t working this email got forwarded to me, I work in the MSC’s global team. Can you tell me when this story is coming out?

You are correct we liaised with Ian’s research team, but we shared quite a bit of additional context and some of this isn’t quite right in the editing.

Your first line/Q1 isn’t accurate, because it misunderstands our role. The MSC is an environmental not-for profit organisation, and our ecolabel indicates that seafood comes from an ecologically sustainable fishery. However, the MSC as an organisation does not ‘grant certificati…

Since we were last in contact with you, we have spoken with several academics and labor rights experts about the role of social audits, corporate social responsibility programs and ethical certifications as industry tools for detecting labor abuses in the seafood supply chain. We have compiled their insights below together with relevant recent research on the topic and have some further questions for the Marine Stewardship Council (MSC). The experts consulted for this included: Dr. Jessica Sparks, Assistant Professor in the Division of Agriculture, Food and Environment at Tufts University; Dr.…

MSC is an environmental not-for-profit whose mission is to end overfishing. While this is our main purpose, we do support global efforts to tackle forced and child labor in seafood supply chains. However, as your email demonstrates, there is no simple or single answer to these complex and difficult issues. In 2022, MSC updated its pre-entry requirements to our program, relating to forced and child labor. In some circumstances, processors were required to provide an audit from a credible third-party labor scheme. In the light of recent events, we are now revisiting these requirements. In part,…